Portland Community College | Portland, Oregon

Episode Transcript

Transcript edited by Hannah “Asher” Sham

 

Show Intro

Kylo: You’re listening to Let’s Talk!. Let’s Talk! Is a digital space for students at PCC experiencing disabilities to share their perspectives, ideas, and worldviews in an inclusive and accessible environment. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of Portland Community College, PCC Foundation, or our community partners. We broadcast on our home website,  pcc.edu/DCA, on Spotify, on XRAY 91.1 FM and 107.1 FM, and KBOO Community Radio 90.7 FM.

Why Accessibility Matters

Asher: Hello, everyone. Welcome to today’s podcast, where we’ll be exploring the importance of accessible education and the people working behind the scenes to ensure that all students have equal opportunities to succeed. Accessibility in education goes far beyond accommodations. It’s about creating environments where students feel supported, empowered, and included. Today, we’ll hear from three professionals who each play a unique role in making that happen. First, we’ll hear from Jeff Larson, the Director of Disability Resources, who helps shape the department’s vision and long-term impact. Next, we’ll hear from Shawn Williams, a counselor and accessibility specialist who works directly with students as they navigate support systems and accommodations. Finally, we’ll hear from Sarah Price, the Alternative Formats Coordinator, who ensures students have access to learning materials in formats that meet their individual needs. Through their perspectives, we’ll gain a better understanding of the challenges students with disabilities face, the support systems available to them, and what the future of accessible education could look like. Let’s begin with Jeff. 

Meet Jeff Larson

Jeff: My name is Jeff Larson. I use he/him pronouns, and I am the Director of Disability Resources 

Asher: Thank you so much for joining me today. Really appreciate you. 

Director Day to Day

Asher: We wanna ask, what does your typical day look like for you in the Accessible Education Department and what do you do? 

Jeff: Yeah, I really appreciated that question because it made me reflect on the fact that I don’t have a typical day. It looks a little bit different every day. But, some common components are a combination of meeting with staff. So, in my role, I oversee and support the student accommodation team. So, that means I work with part-time and full-time counselors, and also our office assistant team. In that role, sometimes there are meetings, oftentimes there are kind of one-off questions or scenarios that come up. That’s actually one of my favorite things about this role, is there will be an opportunity to problem solve or brainstorm something that comes up. So, that’s a big part of my day, is just waiting and hearing of potential scenarios and being able to jump in and provide support to that. But, some other kind of standing experiences that I have in my role is I’m part of the care team. So, I have engagements with that process and supporting the overall campus community. It’s a lot of consultation, collaboration with different campus partners usually around accessibility. I work very closely with our Dean of Inclusive Education, Kayla Parks. It’s a lot of, primarily, staff engagement. But, in my role, one of my responsibilities is resolving accommodation concerns. So, if there’s a scenario that does come up, in many cases, I am the person that meets with that student and tries to understand the situation and provide a resolution. In some cases outside of that framework of supporting students from a, resolving accommodation concern, I also will meet with students to support the team. If someone, has another commitment or a time conflict, then I will also meet directly with students in that initial interaction with our office that typically goes to our practitioners and our counselors, but that’s something I’m able to do as well. So, day-to-day, it looks very different. It’s, sometimes it’s meeting with staff, sometimes it’s meeting with students. Thinking about big picture, how to make the office better. Sometimes it’s those real set meetings for team engagements and that sort of thing. So, every day it looks a little bit different but it’s all around the focus of accessibility. 

Asher: Very nice. 

What Is Care Team

Asher: You mentioned The Care Team. Can you touch very briefly on what The Care Team is and what they do? 

Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. So, the care team is a college-wide resource that helps support students who are navigating, whether it’s a crisis, a high-level concern, or some sort of impact to their overall wellbeing on campus. So, there the team that supports that students through student wellness and as through student care. But, then there is a subset of that program that’s called “The Care Team”, and in that, I work with other people on campus to find resolutions and interventions for students. So, if there’s a student that accessibility is a concern that’s been brought to that team; I’m able to provide a frame of reference of how to maybe provide support for that student, or if we become aware of that concern then we can take that information and be able to follow up with that student and make sure they’re getting all the support and resources that are available through Accessible Education.

Asher: Awesome. Thank you. 

Jeff’s Career Path

Asher: What drew you to work in accessible or inclusive education? 

Jeff: Yeah. It’s a really great question. I appreciate you for asking, so I can kind of reflect back on my journey and my story. So, I’ve always known from a relatively young age that I was interested in pursuing something in education. I have a lot of family members who have been educators from teachers and principals and things of that nature. So, that’s always something I’ve just been drawn to. Because, growing up, I saw some of the positive experiences that came from that. When I was finishing my undergraduate degree at Linfield University, I had an opportunity to be in a program that supported students. It’s called, “Upward Bound”. The role was called Tutor Counselor. During the summer program, we would have high school-aged students come onto the college campus and the intent of that program was to give high school students– who may not have a lot of experience with what higher education looks like, so these were students who were first generation or had a disability experience– make higher education seem more accessible. As part of that program, there were educational offerings that were basically classes that were available to those students. One of my roles, that I had there, was to help support students who had 504 plans. This was kind of my first exposure to accommodation implementation in a semi higher education status. It was still technically high school students, but they were at the college. Through that I learned a lot about 504s and how they were utilized and the supports around that. I kind of flagged that as that was something that was supporting students through that process and working with them and learning about some of the barriers and how to support them. It was really rewarding. So, I finished my undergraduate degree and I was pursuing a degree in school counseling with the intent to be a school counselor. Sometimes things just line up perfectly; as I was in my master’s program for school counseling at Bushnell University, in Eugene, there was a graduate assistant position for disability services at the university. So, while I was engaging in my master’s degree, I was lucky enough to get that position in the disability services office that provided accessibility services for the, for college students. So, I was able to pursue my master’s while also being able to learn about the higher ed realm of accessibility and what they called disability services at that time. So that’s what started me on my journey. Started it in higher education and accessibility and disability in 2009, and that’s carried me forward to various positions from there. But, that’s how it got started. 

Asher: Thank you so much for going through that whole process. It sounds so interesting going those different steps and everything just lining up, it sounds like, perfectly for you! 

Jeff: Yeah. It’s interesting in this field, I definitely have seen other colleagues that have been very intentional where, they knew what this is what they wanted to do and then they set out for it to make that happen. But, so often it, it seems that the stories are similar to mine, that maybe they were pursuing something and then there was an opportunity that there was a little bit of an overlap, or they were doing something similar and the skills translated. I think that’s changing over time, but especially people that have been in the field for longer; I do hear a lot of those stories where it’s, “I was doing this and it kinda led to that.”. It’s a great question, because I’ll be curious to hear what else you learn from your interviews of what people’s stories are like in this field.

Asher: Oh, yeah, definitely. 

Student Challenges at PCC

Asher: Going back to the whole idea of helping students with disabilities, and you touched on that a little bit. What are some of the most common challenges, students with disabilities face when they come to PCC, whether it’s their first time at PCC or they’re coming back, and just the different scenarios and such? 

Jeff: Yeah. I think your point that you just made is really important, because students coming to PCC come with such a different experience. Whether they’re someone who maybe just finished high school or maybe someone who hasn’t been in school in a very long time. Those experiences would be very different especially around disability experience and history with accommodations. In many cases, students who are coming from a high school experience, they may have experience with a 504 plan or an IEP. But, for someone who hasn’t been in school for a long time they may not have access to that information or, in some cases, it was less likely for them to have access to those resources depending on when they graduated. The most common experiences are pretty wide and vary a little bit of what that looks like. but, I think the primary focus is just knowing that students don’t know what the process is, and they may have expectations that it looks one way and in reality it’s a little bit different. Sometimes students come with that stigma of I’m reluctant to work with an office because I’m concerned how that translates and maybe I will be treated differently or maybe there will be something on my transcript. Things that aren’t true. But, it’s something that may prevent them from getting that initial connection. So, some of those barriers are just initially not knowing what to do or what that process looks like, or even if they know what that process is, maybe some reluctance to engage in that. I will say, because PCC is so proactive with promoting resources like ours some of that initial barrier is not as high as I’ve seen in other colleges. But, it certainly is still there. I think that’s something that’s a good point to talk about and make sure we’re aware of that, then working towards eliminating that as much as possible. 

Removing Learning Barriers

Asher: How do you work to remove these barriers to learning and participation in students? 

Jeff: I think there’s a couple things that really emphasize that. It comes back a lot to just the team that we have. At every point of the process, whether it’s a student making an initial phone call or dropping into an office; there is an office assistant that is there to be able to walk them through the process, to be able to be really informative and supportive, also really responsive to the student’s need in being student-centered. Sometimes there’s that engagement that you can see a student is reluctant and you can kind of tailor your conversation to where the student is coming from and what supports would be most helpful. We do a lot of conversation about, ensuring that the student is in control of their experience. So, if it’s something that maybe they wanna just get some initial information and come back at another time, they can do that. If they wanna schedule that appointment right then and there after they’ve completed that initial application, they’re able to do that. It’s really about just meeting students where they are in terms of the process. The other piece that, I think our office does a really good job with, is following up with students with that additional information. If there is something that comes up in conversation, whether it’s that initial in-person communication with an office assistant, or it’s part of that initial meeting that they have with one of the counselors, that you get lots of resources after that. You mentioned something about, whether it was tutoring or learning more about our, digital navigator program that supports technology use. All those pieces are part of the puzzle, and we do a really good job of not just focusing on, “you came here because you have a request related to a disability experience”. We wanna make sure that we’re supporting you as a human and holistically. So, that’s been a real strength of the team that I’ve observed, and it’s something I think makes a big difference in a student feeling. I’m not just going to the accommodation office that’s very formulaic. It’s, “I went there and they worked with me, and they had a conversation with me and they understood where I was coming from.”. I think that makes a big difference in the process. 

Long-Term Impact

Asher: What impact do you hope your department has on students in the long term? I think you touched on it just a little bit. But, the broad spectrum of impact. 

Jeff: Yeah, thank you for, allowing me the opportunity to maybe expand upon it. I think the primary impact that our office can have is ensuring students are able to get the full benefit of their educational experience. So, over the years, there’s definitely been students who, if the accessibility office did not exist, they may have been limited in the way that they could engage in an academic program. So, just knowing those resources are there and can help remove those barriers and allow students to pursue their goals and pursue their dreams. Not to get too expansive with this, but this benefits our entire society to make sure that students are able to meet their educational goals. Let’s use an example of someone in a nursing program, because of an accommodation or because the program ideally is designed in a more accessible way; if that allows that student to then become a nurse, then just think of the impact that person has in that role and how that helps our greater community and provides healthcare in a way that is more supportive. Then if we think about that, that person, if they have a disability experience, they’re gonna be working with people who have disability experiences and they’re gonna be able to provide maybe a more disability inclusive care in that setting. So, I think it is pretty impactful just to think about those connections and how they lead to future connections and making the world and our greater community more accessible overall. Those are the things I just really get a lot of excitement and appreciation for. Just knowing that our work is very impactful, and there are times that it is transformative in how it helps a student and allows them to be able to persist or succeed in an academic setting. Historically, there are a lot of barriers in colleges and universities that we’re working to remove and reduce those, so more people can benefit from this environment. It’s pretty amazing thing to be a part of.

Asher: It really is, yeah. 

Future Improvements

Asher: You mentioned changes or improvements. Are there any changes or improvements that you would like to see in the accessible education in the future? 

Jeff: Yeah. Great question, and that’s something that I’ve really appreciated about this office in joining this team, is that we are pretty forward-thinking and making sure that we’re not just doing things the way they were done twenty years ago, but instead being really proactive. Incorporating more technology practices in not only what we do, but also making sure that there’s more access tools for students. So, we have a lot of access to technology that we use as part of accommodation resources, but we’re always looking at new programs, new resources. Anytime something comes on our radar, we will try to learn more about that program and see if it’s something that we can implement. The other piece of this that I think we’ve already started this process. Historically, becoming eligible for accommodations or benefiting from accommodation support was based very much on getting a formal evaluation and documentation from a medical or mental health provider, and then that the accessibility office would be limited until that comprehensive report was in front of us. We certainly look at third-party documentation as part of our process, but we also know there are students who may not have immediate access to those records or may be in process of getting some of that information. But, maybe they have other forms of information, including their own self-report. So, I think that’s something that a very forward-thinking office does, is looking at student experience as an essential part of the accommodation determination process. That’s something that we will continue to move forward with, just making sure that we’re valuing student self-report in determining what resources are available for a student.

Asher: Just the continuous improvement that we see evolving over the years.

Jeff: The other piece that I think we could do as kind of continual improvement, and we already do some of this. But, I would love to get more student feedback on their experience and try to take in that information through student survey and student responses then try to make adjustments based on that. Because, sometimes we’re making best guesses– not even best guesses– determining best practices based on the information that we have and we’re able to evaluate. But, I think there would be opportunities to get even more student feedback so that we can incorporate that into some of our procedures.

Asher: Have you guys tried putting out a questions box?

Jeff: Yeah, we’ve done a little bit of that in the past, and I think that’s something that we could really implement that in a consistent and ongoing way so we can maybe take that information and, at designated points, provide the same survey and see. We’ve put in this different program; how has that changed? This particular area of your experience and be able to do some comparison over time, I think is an area for potential growth there.

Evolving Role and Rewards

Asher: How do you see your work evolving over the next few years? Maybe three years from now? How do you see it change, or not change? 

Jeff: Yeah, that’s a great question. I guess we haven’t really talked about this as much. So, I’m newer to my role, so I’m still figuring out exactly what my role looks like in a year over year basis. I started this academic year, so I started in September. With that, I already have seen the different dynamics within the role of what is the busier times for PCC and specific pieces of the position that I would anticipate needing to be able to support more students. At certain times it’s, “No, this is gonna be more staff focus,” versus, “Here’s more time for strategic focus.”. So, all that to say, I think over time, as I become more seasoned in my role, I think I will be doing more work on strategic planning and that forward thinking, that you asked about in a previous question. As, right now, it’s a lot of, “Okay, here’s something and we’re responding to it”, and I think eventually it’ll be more like, “Let’s anticipate what we’re gonna see in the future and then address it before it even comes up.” So, I think that’s where I would see my role maybe evolving and me becoming more proficient in that role, as well.

Asher: That’s great. Yeah, I had no idea that you were pretty new. Welcome to the team!

Jeff: Yes. Thank you!

Asher: I’m sure that you’ll find more answers to this next question, but what’s the most rewarding part of your work right now that you’re starting off? Or would you find more rewarding parts of your work later on down the line if you can think of it? 

Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. So, I think the rewarding work Is really just being able to be part of such an amazing team. I think that’s what I find most joy in. So, we already talked a little bit about some of those positive impacts that I’ve seen in the work that I’ve done over the years. But, the big reason why I chose to come to PCC, is accessible education and disability resources at PCC is known throughout the state and throughout the country as having one of the best teams that supports accessibility. So, by being here and being part of that it’s really thrilling. It feels amazing to know that there is someone who has expertise in a lot of different areas or very specific areas. And, in my work, I’ve always been, I guess, more of a generalist when it comes to accessibility. Then we have someone who specializes in working as a ASL interpreter and coordinating ASL interpreting programs. We have someone who does specific work within technology. Our practitioner or counselor team, they all have specific strengths and areas that they focus on. So, it’s really just a very rewarding part to feel like you’re being engaged in something that’s so significant. There are definitely times where, whether it’s a student, whether it’s someone from the team, that I’m able to help them with a scenario and problem solve and find a resolution. Not all the resolutions are everyone feels 100%, like that was perfect, but just knowing that there’s a lot of those scenarios where it’s like, “yep, I helped create that solution and was able to move something forward.”. That feels really good in the day-to-day.

Asher: Very, very much inspiring. Thank you for that! 

Jeff: Yeah!

Accessibility Benefits Everyone

Asher: What do you wish more people understood about accessible education? And I know that’s a very broad question, but answer it as you will. 

Jeff: Yeah. So, when you ask that question the first thing I think of is that accessible education, the work that we do, and the philosophies that we have and the approaches that we put forth; they don’t just benefit disabled students and those with disability experiences. By creating accessibility and allowing things to have more inclusive practices, it benefits everyone. So, we think about scenarios where a video was captioned originally with the intent of, maybe someone with a specific disability. I’ll just use hearing, as an example. But, then anyone who’s watching that video; maybe where English is their second language, maybe where there’s a audio processing experience where sometimes it’s just more effective for everyone to be able to see and hear at the same time. So, anything that increases accessibility for one, in many cases, will increase accessibility for all. There’s a lot of examples like that. Automatic door openers. It was for specific physical access originally when we started in accessibility thinking about these tools. But, then there’s people who are carrying a heavy box in their hand, and they can press the automatic door opener, and it allows them to have greater access. When we think about the testing accommodations and thinking about having more time on exams there are scenarios where we should be thinking about how much time, is comfortable to allow everyone to be able to finish within the time that allows them to demonstrate what they know. I’ve been doing this for a while. There are some scenarios where an exam is intended to measure how fast you know something. But, most of the time, we just wanna know if you know the information. So, if we can create environments that don’t add barriers for students with disabilities, they also won’t add barriers for someone who maybe didn’t get a lot of sleep the night before because their child was up sick. There’s all these things that accessibility and inclusive education benefits and it’s not only disabled experiences. So, the disabled experience is centered in on what we do and is essential to what we do. But I think that’s something to really important to emphasize, that accessibility and inclusive practices benefit everyone.

Asher: I love that. Yeah, making things accessible for everyone regardless of whether or not they have a disability or not. I feel like that’s a huge one. Especially when I was in school, those test times, were just like, “Oh, shoot! I don’t have a lot of time left!”

Jeff: Yeah, I mean, sometimes there’s limitations on this is how long the class is, so this is the limitation on what the exam should be. But, sometimes it’s the instructor. If you’re teaching the subject, usually you have a lot of expertise and maybe it comes more easily to you. Sometimes they design tests and go, “Oh, well, this probably would only take me, insert X amount of time, so that’s what I’m gonna give everyone else.”, when really that’s not the best way to think about it. 

Asher: No, of course not. 

Testing Accommodations

Asher: And, I’m really glad now that, whenever you do need extra time for a test, you can schedule it with Accessible Education Office. They’ll give you a set area to take a longer time to do the test, and correct me if I’m wrong with that. 

Jeff: No, you’re absolutely correct. Yeah, that’s one of the resources that students access through our office pretty frequently is having an accommodation for extended time on exams. Then we collaborate with the testing centers on the four main campuses to provide that space and sometimes it’s actually just the environment of having reduced distraction location is part of the accommodation. Sometimes it’s being able to use technology. There’s lots of resources for testing that are available, so I’m glad you made that point. 

Asher: Well, thank you so much, Jeff. We appreciate you taking the time to be interviewed by us.

Jeff: Yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me. I really, really appreciate it. And, it was great to connect with you today.

Meet Shaun Williams

Asher: While leadership helps shape policy, direct student support happens on a more personal level. Shaun works closely with students as a counselor and accessibility specialist, helping them navigate services and advocate for their needs. 

Shaun: My name is Shaun Williams. My pronouns are he, him. I work here in the Accessible Ed and Disability Resources Department. I have two roles here, essentially. I’m a Counselor, which means I work with students around academic accommodations and with instructors. My other role here is I am an Accessibility Specialist. 

Asher: Thanks for joining me today. 

Shaun’s Daily Work

Asher: What does a typical day look like for you, Shaun? 

Shaun: I would say for the most part it is working with students directly, and that means in-person as well as virtual. We offer appointments and connect with students in both of those ways. This is helping students get connected with our department for the first time, and then it’s following up if any kind of questions or concerns arise as they’re bouncing their way through their classes and the terms and stuff. Since I do have two roles; as an accessibility specialist, I’m working on projects, I’m sitting on committees, I’m connecting with other departments, and I sit in front of the computer a lot too. So, doing different tasks there. Happy to expand. That’s kinda the thumbnail. 

Asher: Oh, yeah! If you would love to expand on that would be great, yeah. 

Why Shaun Chose This

Asher: Also just what drew you to work in accessible or inclusive education? 

Shaun: Yeah. Also great question. I think that this happened a lot of years ago for me. It definitely came out of my own college experience. So, I’m blind and was when I went through my undergrad and my graduate degrees. So, I absolutely utilized academic accommodations. Would have had a very difficult time getting through both of my degrees without. I was in this space as a student. I experienced it on that side and I really connected with some of the counselors that I worked with and just really felt like that could very well be something that I saw myself doing. It wasn’t initially; I worked in a nonprofit here in Portland for 10 years before finding my way to PCC, here. Really happy to have found myself here working in this capacity. 

Asher: That’s awesome, Shaun. I had no idea that you were Blind and low vision. Thanks for letting me know about that!

Shaun: Absolutely! Yeah! I could have announced that in my introduction as well. But, it always comes out one time or another, so there it is. 

Asher: Yeah. That’s perfect. 

Common Student Challenges

Asher: What are some of the most common challenges students with disabilities face when they come to PCC, in your opinion?

Shaun: Navigating the new systems. Students are running over there to connect with Financial Aid, and they’re running back over here to connect with Advising, and they’re running over there to connect with the Registrar’s Office and New Student Enrollment Advising. So, that’s definitely the thing that I see; students being up against as a new student. We definitely work to help with that, whether it’s warm handoffs or like walking students over to another one of the departments that they’re needing to connect with. So, it can be frustrating and confusing that these departments are seemingly kind of so siloed. It’s just one of these weird structures that’s just kind of true. There’s an awesome community here among the different departments. There’s a lot of supporting one another and helping them find where they need to go. So, it’s definitely navigable, it can be sort of a lot at first. A number of students connect with us, who had an individualized education plan and/or a 504 plan; these are terms for having accommodations in their K through 12 experience. So, it actually looks and feels pretty different here in college than it does in high school, if a student has had accommodations. There’s a learning curve there. Once students really get into that learning curve and they’re here for a term or two, I really feel like for the most part, how it works here in college, is so much better than how it worked in high school. That’s a thing that students have to navigate and adjust to, for sure. 

Asher: Definitely. Yeah. Thanks for diving deeper into that. I really appreciate it, and I totally understand the struggle of just going back and forth with different departments of what’s needed whenever you start in like a higher education, basically. 

How Students Get Started

Asher: Can you walk us through how a student typically connects with your services and what that process looks like for you? 

Shaun: Yeah, for sure. Really that first entry point is on our website; there’s a questionnaire that students fill out to officially get connected with us. How students find themselves getting to that questionnaire differs, for sure. Sometimes it’s instructors referring students to us, and so then they’ll just walk into the office and our office assistants are happy to connect with them and get them set up with that questionnaire right here in real time. Sometimes students know where they’re going and they just navigate to the website and fill out the questionnaire, independently. Another thing that happens, and I suspect we’ll probably talk more about this, is that here on the Southeast Campus of PCC, there is an accessibility hub. This very much serves like a Disability Cultural Center, like a Disability Identity Center. It’s in the Tabor Building here on Southeast Campus, so students sometimes just wander in there because it looks interesting and/or they’ve been told about it so they’re going to check it out. Oftentimes students find themselves in there asking like, “Well, how do I connect with Accessible Ed, and where do I go to get accommodations?”. The student advocates and Ira McKenzie, who runs that program, are super helpful in getting students heading in the right direction. So, once students fill out that questionnaire, that gets the whole system rolling, then they’ll schedule, and they’ll meet with the practitioner or counselor, like myself, and then they enter into– here’s where it gets kinda boring and dry.

Asher: Nothing is boring or dry! It’s all very interesting for those who don’t know about this! 

Shaun: The students enter into what’s called an interactive process. Which is, I think, a fancy way of saying, “real talk”. Just like, “What’s going on? How can we help you? What are you up against?”. Then we’re exploring what kinds of accommodations are helpful and appropriate. So, that interactive process is ongoing, always. Students can circle back with us if new things come up, if they have questions or concerns, and I should also quickly state that this interactive process absolutely includes instructors. So, there’s a lot of dialogue between those three parties, if you will. 

Asher: Oh, yeah. I’m sure. Yeah. Thanks for digging into that for us. It’s very interesting ’cause, the same with me, I’ve not really ever looked too deeply into Accessible Education until I started with the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective. Up until then, I did not even know that there was, Accessible Education Department. I was like, “Oh! That’s very cool that they actually have services like this! How did I not know about this when I was in school before?”. It’s great of you, and many other people, providing these services to support students in everything they do. 

Empowerment Through Rapport

Asher: How do you ensure that students feel empowered and not stigmatized when seeking support? 

Shaun: Yes. This is an interesting one for sure. I guess there are two parts here. So, the empowered part, is born out of that interactive process. When I’m meeting with students, it’s really important to me to put effort into creating rapport, so that students can hopefully feel like they can trust me and trust the department. That we’re there for them and that we understand their experience. I think that is really important. Along with that, there’s these conversations where- it can take a lot of different shapes and forms. One thing that’s coming to mind here is that, when I feel it’s important or appropriate, sometimes I share my own journey experience with students. Being like, “I totally understand where you’re coming from. I was in your shoes.”. I definitely see that some students file that away. I share that with them just because, I remember seeing models, when I was younger, and looking at people who were also blind and they were 20 years ahead of me, thinking like, “Okay. Yeah, I can see myself in you 20 years from now.”. So, I do think that that kind of helps students face barriers and feel empowered. Another thing that happens in those conversations is that, when students have these academic accommodations and these other kinds of supports and resources and tools at their access and at the ready; we really explain it to students to think and feel like you’re in the driver’s seat. That’s really one of the big differences between having accommodations in the K through 12 experience, because students weren’t in the driver’s seat during those. They were at best in the passenger seat and in others times, and spaces, it was like they’re in the backseat. That’s fine because they’re minors. But, these are adult learners and so really being the one who gets to decide how and when and where they use their accommodations is a big part of that empowerment. 

Asher: Yeah, for sure. I feel like that’s a big one. Giving them the tools needed in order to take charge of what they want in their studies and in their courses and what they wanna do in life.

Reducing Stigma With Community

Shaun: The other part of your question was the stigmatism. 

Asher: Yes. 

Shaun: This one is a lot more complicated. Complex, I guess is a better word. I mentioned the accessibility hub and I’m gonna bring it up again because, I’ve observed in real time that being able to kinda tap into a community that is in and around the Accessibility Hub can definitely help with that empowerment. “Not alone”, kind of feeling. There’s projects that they get involved with together and work on together, and share ideas, and tips, and strategies, and friendship. So, that definitely helps reduce and, hopefully, eliminate in some cases the stigmatisms. The reality that, attitudinal barriers and attitudinal discrimination is out there, is very real. Even on a campus, like PCC, that has value and philosophy in their mission statements, that we believe in social justice here, and there are a lot of initiatives and work being done to foster that and grow that all the time, it’s still a part of society. So, discrimination and ableism and especially those attitudinal barriers they’re real. It’s an ongoing conversation all the time. It’s really helpful for students to know about the different ways that they can connect with us and get that support from us here in a professional capacity and also the peer capacities that come with the Accessibility Hub and other options like that.

Long Term Student Impact

Asher: What impact do you hope your department has on students in the long term, or even yourself?

Shaun: I think probably what might be at the center of that, for me, is I really hope for students that they gain self-efficacy in their journey as a person experiencing disabilities and health conditions that brings them here in the first place. “Knowledge is power”, as they’ve always said, and that’s why people seek education. Is to gain knowledge and skill and definitely that translates to things like I really hope students get the education and the experience here to go out there and get that career that they’re in pursuit of. There’s a lot more to it than just getting the degree. The wisdom that’s gained through navigating a college education. Students who connect with us, either are experiencing the first time accommodations and/or just connecting with different kinds of supports and resources. So, they have that experience that they can take forward in whatever stage of life comes next, whether that’s like the workplace or whatnot. A lot of people don’t know that there are workplace accommodations. I’m definitely aware that some folks have accommodations in college and then they get to the workplace and they’re not as aware and/or feel differently about having accommodations in the workplace. That can create a lot of unnecessary stress and difficulty. So, there’s a lot that students can come away with in addition to a degree and a certificate and knowledge and skills. 

Asher: Oh, yeah. Definitely. 

Universal Design Future

Asher: With that, just what changes or improvements would you like to see in accessible education in the future?

Shaun: Yeah. One thing that’s always being worked on is this, really important concept of universal design. While we’re working here with instructors and with departments there’s work being done to create more of a universal design experience; which means that when things are universally designed, in many cases, something like an accommodation, is no longer necessary. So, this universal design really includes equity in education, in life. So, I really hope to see continual progress in that direction. 

AI And Evolving Work

Asher: How do you see your work evolving over the next few years for yourself? Would it change at all? 

Shaun: Yes and no. We’re always onto new projects. Some projects are more long-term, so some things don’t change. They just progress and then other things do change with new projects that come on board. I almost wanna say, I think we can see some changes in the next few years with the boogeyman in the room, being AI. But, I don’t really know. I don’t have any projections there. I just am aware of this thing and its encroaching nature. 

Asher: What’s your opinion on that? Do you think AI will be more helpful in the long run or do you think it’s more detrimental?

Shaun: I think like all technology and such, it’s both. Super complicated. 

Asher: Yeah, no. We won’t get into that too much. Yeah, next question! 

Most Rewarding Moments

Asher: What has been the most rewarding part of your work? Yeah, just going back into the whole idea of what you do. And you’ve mentioned a little bit about the two different types of jobs you do as a accessible specialist. Accessible specialist? 

Shaun: Accessibility Specialist. 

Asher: Yeah. Sorry. “Accessibility Specialist”. 

Shaun: I have to say it out loud, so that I can know what I’m saying and get it right. I’m a people person. That’s why I’m here. I really enjoy connecting and working with people. There are definitely times where I’m like that sensation and that like visceral experience of being in the right place at the right time happens a lot when working directly in that kind of one-on-one interaction with students. There’s a lot of joy and reward in that, especially when students are like, “I had no idea you guys were here. I have been struggling for so long. I’m so glad to have finally connected with you all.” . That happens a lot, unfortunately. It’s also just so rewarding when students realize, how they can support themselves and reduce or remove some of the barriers that have just been really difficult. So, that’s awesome to know that and really see in real time how impactful this work can be. 

Asher: We’re super glad to have you on the team and helping a lot of students out and helping them learn about all these different services that are available to them to help them grow in their knowledge and their careers and goals and what they do.

Shaun: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. 

Beyond Accommodations

Asher: The final question, what do you wish more people understood about accessible education?

Shaun: Yeah. I guess one thing to say is that it’s a lot more than just academic accommodations. There’s a lot more supports and resources and ways that students and faculty can engage with our department. That’s a big one, for sure. It seems like this is an opportunity to hopefully say something that will help dispel the notions and stereotypes and “ableist” kind of things that come up around this, whether it’s internalized. I suspect that folks who are gonna be listening to this podcast either directly experience some kind of disability, or at the very least know somebody who does. Like the rest of the “-isms” that are in our lives; ableism is in internalized. Connecting with other folks, I think, is a really helpful way to get inside of that and work to dismantle it. In doing so, we’re changing our lives hopefully making it easier and richer. Then that’s gonna also change the world. That sounds like a big thing, but I suppose it’s true, you know? I want it to be. 

Asher: Oh, yeah. We all want it to be, for sure. Yeah. A better world for everyone.

Shaun: Yeah. 

Asher: Well, thank you very much, Shaun. I appreciate you interviewing with me today.

Shaun: You’re very welcome. Thanks for having me on. 

Meet Sarah Alt Formats

Asher: Our final guest, Sarah, works in a highly specialized role as the alternative formats coordinator. Her work focuses on ensuring students can access course materials in ways that support their learning needs.

Sarah: I am Sarah Price, I use they/she pronouns, and I am the alternative formats coordinator for Accessible Ed. 

Asher: Thank you so much, Sarah, for joining me today. We wanna talk to you a little bit just about what your role is and just how you see things in your perspective. 

Alternative Formats Workflow

Asher: What does a typical day look like for you? 

Sarah: So, just an overview of my role; I oversee the coordination and production of all of our alternative format accommodations across all of our campuses. So, that means things like, accessible textbooks, large print, braille, and all manner of accessible digital files. I also work directly with, other PCC faculty and staff with technical support and training on accessibility with their course shells or whatever else they may be doing. I kinda get pulled into all sorts of just different projects. So, that might be doing something like working on a newsletter or helping build a website about a particular aspect of accessibility. It can be all kinds of different things. So, a typical day for me looks like, I work mostly remote, but I do have to come in occasionally to do printing if there’s any production that needs to be done. I also do the work of organizing the work, so I’m meeting with people on my team who are doing some of the remediation or production of materials, making sure everything’s going okay. I’m emailing students to make sure they have what they need. I’m reaching out to faculty who have questions and a bunch of little bits and bobs every day. 

Asher: That’s cool. That’s awesome! What drew you to work in this area of accessibility? 

Sarah: It’s a great question. Part of this is I’m disabled myself. I have been a disabled student. I had my own struggle getting through college. Both my Bachelor’s and my Master’s Degree were extended because of time I had to take off due to health issues and other disability barriers. So, I’ve been there. In fact, I started working in this area when I went to get my Master’s Degree. I worked as a student worker at PSU’s Disability Resource Center and learned new skills. So, that’s where kind of the love of this started for me and I’ve been doing it for about eight years now. 

Asher: Wow! Happy eight years! 

Sarah: Thank you! 

Barriers From Inaccessible Materials

Asher: What are some of the most common challenges students with disabilities face when they come to PCC?

Sarah: That’s a great question. There are so many answers to this. Because, it really depends on what population of students that you’re working with even within the disability community. So, for me, the one that is most commonly, on my doorstep, is students encountering materials that are not accessible to them. Without those, they really struggle to be successful in their education. That could be something like they do better with listening rather than reading. So, they would like an audiobook of their textbook or a tool that reads it out loud for them. That could be a blind student who doesn’t have access to materials that work for their screen reader. It’s all these kinds of things that come up for me the most often and are huge barriers. 

Asher: Definitely. Yeah. I definitely also just face the same issues. I tend to listen better than I do reading, as well. So, I totally understand what you’re saying about getting an audiobook rather than reading through a textbook on its own. 

Converting Textbooks Legally

Asher: How do you remove these barriers to learning and participation? You mentioned it a little bit; how do you get a textbook and then change it into audio if you’re not even able to in the first place? 

Sarah: Yeah. There’s a couple ways we do that. So, there are often more and more, which is really awesome, digital versions available from the beginning. Instructors are using, or offering the digital versions, or OERs, open educational resources, for their classes which are often accessible. So, that’s just one piece of this. That is one way we can help is to make sure that that is something that we prioritize as an institution. But, when there are not availabilities like that we will take whatever version we can get our hands on. We will convert it to a file that works best for that particular student, or will fit best with the rest of the course materials the instructor is using, and just make sure it passes all the tests. It can be read either by a screen reader or other kinds of assistive technologies. Sometimes that means working with a publisher. Many of our textbooks are copyrighted, so we must follow the copyright laws and reach out to the publishers and get special permissions and things like that. So, there’s a lot that goes into the various types of materials that we end up encountering. 

Asher: Have you ever faced a situation where the author’s like, “No, you can’t turn this into an audiobook”?

Sarah: Yeah.

Asher: What happens during those times?

Sarah: It’s very, very rare. I’ll just say that. Most people, even if they have a whole list of requirements that they have, you have to kind of jump through some extra hoops, most publishers eventually will say, “Yes, here you go.”. We have had instances where they don’t and so what we typically do in that instance is, if they can get a print version of the book, we actually cut the binding off and scan it and then create a digital copy from that. It’s very labor-intensive, but you know what? We will do what we can to make sure they get what they need, you know? That’s what we do. 

Asher: Whatever you gotta do! That must take a long time to scan each and every single page just to… And, if it’s a hefty textbook too! 

Sarah: Yeah, it can be. I have actually been very lucky that we have not had to do that recently. So, almost always we can either get it from a publisher, or we find some other way for us to get what we need.

Asher: That’s very interesting, definitely. 

How Students Request Support

Asher: Can you walk us through how a student will typically connect with your services, and what that process looks like?

Sarah: Yeah. There’s a couple different streams that I end up getting connected with students. Most often they’re referred to me by their disability counselor, practitioners within AEDR. So, the student connects with our office, who works with a practitioner to get their accommodations that they might need, and then they either put their accommodations in our system every term and I get an automated notification that they have a request, or I sometimes get a direct connection via email, or a student just reaching out, who isn’t connected with us yet, that says, “Hey, I need help with this textbook”, or whatever. There’s all kinds of ways, but the most common is just through our disability counselors.

Asher: What do you find yourself providing, as far as, accommodation services and support? What do you find yourself providing most of more often than not? 

Sarah: Definitely accessible textbooks. That’s hands down our biggest request. To kind of put it in perspective; we have thousands of individual requests every term just for my department. So, Alt Formats, we get, depending on the term, anywhere between 800 and 1,100 requests for accessible textbooks every single term. That’s a lot of books! That’s per class. So, the requests per class. So, it’s several hundred students requesting for several classes each. Which may have more than one textbook each. So, it’s a lot! A lot of them we already have, and sometimes that process is sped up by, like I said, already electronic versions existing. But, that is by far our biggest service that we provide. Then after that, of course, things like large print materials, braille materials, fully accessible Word files, things like that.

Asher: That is a lot of textbooks! Oh, my goodness! 

Sarah: It’s a lot. But, thankfully, like I said, so many of them and so many of our instructors are using these wonderful already digital materials. So, when that’s the case, we don’t have to do anything further. We just check to make sure they’re good to go and then we move on to the next one. So, it ends up being significantly less that we’re actually needing to go and hunt something down. But, that is the number of requests all together. 

Asher: That’s awesome! Thanks for your work in that. 

Empowerment And Rights

Asher: How do you ensure that students feel empowered and not stigmatized when they do come and seek support? Whether it’s captioning needs, or textbook audio, the different things like that?

Sarah: Yeah. It kind of depends on the scenario and where people are at in their own journey with experiencing disability. Some people come to us really frustrated, because they already know what they should be getting. Then some people just come to us frustrated, because they don’t know what they need. There’s a lot of variety on that spectrum in people’s journeys. So, I try to be individualized in that sense. But, I think making sure students know that their right is to equal access to education. They are not silly for asking, they are not broken, or anything else like that disability is just a way that human bodies are. We have all these various ways that our bodies are and that is what it is. Not good nor bad. I also sometimes choose to disclose my own disabilities to make people feel comfortable. ‘Cause I think there’s something about having a shared experience that can really destigmatize what you’re talking about and also empower people to, “Hey, I’ve been through this too. I’ve gotten through this. I can help you get through it.”. Hopefully that’s a comforting and empowering thought for them as well.

Proactive Accessibility Vision

Asher: What changes or improvement would you like to see in accessible education in the future? 

Sarah: Yeah. It’s a big question. There’s so much, but I guess the thing that’s most present in my mind is I wanna see accessible digital materials being the norm in all areas of our college. I don’t wanna necessarily work myself out of a job, in the sense, that I know there’s always gonna be individualized support that’s needed. But, I wanna be working on proactive stuff. I wanna use my time for creative, projects and things like that. I don’t wanna have to be bogged down, because we have materials in courses or in other parts of our institution that are not fully accessible for all of our students and employees and community. We’re doing a lot of work right now to make that happen. PCC policy has been in place since 2018, that supports our ongoing efforts to make sure that all of our digital materials are, fully accessible for folks and we’re gonna keep working towards that goal.

Asher: How do you see your work evolving over the next few years? And I know you talked a little bit about it of you don’t wanna necessarily work yourself out of a job. But, do you see your work evolving with technology advancing and everything? 

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. I think the thing that I would love to see the most is, like I said, doing more proactive work. So, when a faculty member wants to build a new course, if they’re working directly with us during that process, building their materials together; that would be more fun and I think beneficial to people in using universal design principles throughout the whole process, whether that’s a remote class or in person. Have that be more what we can focus on and spend our energy doing than having to scramble last minute. That can be a really frustrating experience, especially for the student who’s experiencing it, but also for our team as well. The more we can flip that around a little bit, the better. Closing some of the knowledge gaps. That’s no one’s fault for that. That’s just you don’t know what you don’t know and we wanna be the place that can help and can support.

Rewards, Challenges, And Tips

Asher: What’s the most rewarding part of your work? I’m curious. 

Sarah: Yeah. I have kind of two answers. I have a short-term answer and a long-term answer. I think short-term, it’s really rewarding when you give a student that piece that they need to be successful. Connect all the dots, get them what they need, and they’re able to successfully finish that class. Hearing from students that they now have what they need and they are able to access the materials, that’s very rewarding. But, additionally, I think about it in the long term of I didn’t just give someone a textbook; I helped them be successful in their education, which will stay with them for the rest of their lives. That impact, that investment in someone, watching that bloom over time or just knowing that it will, is extremely rewarding for me as well.

Asher: Oh, that’s very sweet. I like that. On the other hand, what challenges do you face in your role, and how do you navigate them? 

Sarah: Yeah. We could talk about the technical challenges. There’s some of that. There’s some things that we would love to do easier, that is just not very easy now. There’s also the heavy lift of remediating materials that are all over our digital environments. But, beyond that, there is still a lot of stigma about disability and I see students experiencing it, I experience it, and it can be difficult sometimes to collaborate with people who may not have that same shared experience. So, having to defend or explain ourselves continuously can be very exhausting. Explaining what our students need can be exhausting at times, and that can be a real challenge when we encounter people who just may not have that understanding yet. 

Asher: Yeah, that’s a big one. Needing to explain ourselves over and over again. “This is simple. I don’t need to say it multiple times”, kind of thing. Last question, what do you wish more people understood about accessible education? 

Sarah: Yeah. They may understand that education is important, that access to education is important. But, what that looks like day to day is like making sure your Word Docs have headings, making sure you have alt text on your Instagram posts. It’s little things that really do impact someone’s access. That we can all agree is important, but sometimes it feels like, “why do I have to make sure I have heading structure in my Word Docs?”, that’s because, so everyone can access it. So, it’s like always kind of tying it back to I wish people knew what the different pieces. A lot of it is just not knowing what you don’t know, and how that does ultimately impact someone’s ability to stay in school, complete a class successfully. With those little things potentially ironed out, they can get there, they can do it.

Asher: Definitely. Yeah. General accessibility tied into accessible education kind of thing. I only recently also just learned how to work alt text as well into my images, which I was very confused between a caption for an image and an alt text for an image. So, I was trying to figure out which one is which! 

Sarah: They’re both helpful in their different ways, and the other thing that is important to note too is that there are differences even among people who need things like that; how they would like them formatted. There’s the standards, and then there’s people’s preferences on top of that. So, it’s always about trying to be flexible and making sure people have the bare minimum; something is there describing an image. Sometimes that might be alt text, some times that might be a longer description, sometimes that might be a thicker caption. It all helps. 

Asher: It’s all different.

Sarah: It’s all different, but it all helps. 

Asher: Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for talking with me about all this.

Sarah: Thank you so much for having me. 

Closing Thoughts And Credits

Asher: Today’s conversations remind us that accessibility is not just about accommodations. It’s about equity, dignity, and ensuring every student has the opportunity to fully participate in their education. Whether it’s through leadership, counseling, or resource coordination, each of our guests play an important role in building a more inclusive campus environment. A huge thank you to Jeff, Shaun, and Sarah for sharing their experiences and insights with us. And thank you for listening. Until next time, take care.

Asher: Thank you for listening to Let’s Talk!, Portland Community College’s broadcast about disability culture. Find more information and resources concerning this episode and others at pcc.edu/dca. This episode was produced by the Let’s Talk! Podcast Collective as a collaborative effort between students, the Accessible Education and Disability Resource Department, and the PCC Multimedia Department. We air new episodes on our home website, our Spotify channel, XRAY 91.1 FM and 107.1 FM, and KBOO Radio 90.7 FM.