EAC Academic Standards and Practices Committee

Current Issues: 5-Year Rule

The Academic Standards and Practices Committee is very interested in hearing your thoughts about any current issue. Please click here to let us know what you think.

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Submitted by:
Susan Garber, CAAlcohol & Drug Counseling Instructor (Mar 8, 2006)
Comments:

The problem we are having [with the 5-year rule] in the A&D program is that our graduation rates are adversely affected. Students who have taken Writing 121 and Writing 122 previously are being accepted into Bachelor's degree programs that will take the writing credits. One case in point is a student who is a great writer named Shanta Anderson.  She did take the courses.  However she doesn't meet the five year rule.  So she plans to transfer to Concordia without getting the Alcohol and Drug Counseling degree.  She is very active in student government and has worked at the Women's Resource Center at Cascade and SE Campus.   She has won scholarships. I think that all the Professional Technical  Programs should be surveyed on the difficulty of the rule. Please let me know the best way to have an impact.  I would like to see people who have taken the 121 and 122 at any time either demonstrate competency or have their credits accepted.

Submitted by:
Carolyn Haynes, CA Math Instructor (Mar 8, 2006)
Comments:

Just a personal opinion from a veteran teacher (teaching steadily since 1985 at community college level, and previously at Jr/Sr Hi levels in public schools).  I think 3 years should be the maximum, with no more than 1 year between successive levels; I have very seldom seem success at periods longer than that, unless the student did well, the first time.  So the grade received at an earlier time also has a direct affect, as well.  The poorer the grade, the less likely to retain the information!

Submitted by:
Sonya Bedient, RC Counseling (Mar 8, 2006)
Comments:

The issue lies within the change to Prerequisites.  Students will not only have to have their prereq fulfilled before taking classes but then be have to take additional courses to keep their WR current.  If we are to have prereqs then we need to eliminate the 5 year rule.

Submitted by:
Ed Lindsey, CA Fire Science Program Instructor (Mar 8, 2006)
Comments:

I would like to see both the Writing and the Math "5 year rule" removed completely.

I support the requirement for completion of Math 65 or 63 and Writing 121 with a "C" grade or better.

The elimination of the rule might be considered for AAS Degrees only if other PT programs agree?
There are many reasons I believe this.  I am under the impression that PCC stands alone on the 5 year requirement?  Let me know if this is incorrect.

FP students either finish the degree in two to three years, or they get hired before they are finished with the AAS and begin a career as a fire fighter.  Once in the field, the degree can take well over 5 years to complete.  There are many reasons for the delay.  Fire Fighter's start with one year of probation in which they can not take classes without compromising their career.  After probation they are sent to fire department training events that in some cases take priority over completion of the degree.  There is no requirement for a degree for promotion but, to be competitive, they may start trying to finish the degree 3-5 years after hire if education is how they believe they can compete for promotion.

I believe applicants should be required to have an AAS Degree to apply for the job of fire fighter, but this is not the reality. These are just some of the reasons.  How do PT programs feel about this compared to LDT programs?  Is there any commonality or contrast?

Submitted by:
Diane Kamali, CA ENNL/Humanities Instructor (Mar 8, 2006)
Comments:

I'd like to see the time line expanded.  It seems to me that the art and skills related to writing would stay fairly tappable even after seven years, but perhaps there is research on this to indicate after what time period such abilities diminish to the point of needing refreshing via taking another course?

Submitted by:
Tim Flanagan, SY Educational Programs Instructor (Mar 8, 2006)
Comments:

The policy requiring demonstration of Math and Writing proficiency prior to receiving a degree is prudent.  But the qualifier "within five (5) years" seems unnecessary.

This wording seems sufficient: "All candidates must meet the following basic competencies:  Degree candidates must demonstrate basic mathematics  and writing skills in order to receive their degree." The delimiters which follow this introduction seem appropriate.

 

Committee Chair 2006-2007: Porter Raper